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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 28, 2009 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Opinions on Welnick

I have read here in the past on the lack of love for Welnick and it got me thinking. I have listened to my fair share of shows and he seens to handle the job OK. Do you all think that he is just a victim of following up a strong lineup of previous keys or was he thrown into a bad position of a deterioting band that was selling a bunch of tickets. Everyone has to remember that he was hired by the band Garcia, Lesh, Weir and I can imagine that their thought is that if he is good enough for us then he is good enough for the fans.What if he was on the boards from 72 until 79 would he recieve the same as now? My opinion is that no matter who was brought in at that time he would not be well recieved. Thanks for reading and I look foward to some other opinions and observations.

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Poster: buscameby Date: Aug 29, 2009 9:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

SAMBA IN THE RAIN- enough said!

AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhh

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Poster: staggerleib Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

Well Senor,
I sit very strongly in Vinnie's camp. I've said it before, and I would say it again. I think that he was truly great. A consummate musician. Maybe not such a great singer, that really wasn't his strong suit. But he was an excellent keyboard player.

He was not the IDEAL keyboard player for the band. I think that sitting on the bench for the guys was a position that was destined to fail. I think that Vinnie really could never have succeeded in this role. As talented as he was, with as much keyboard knowledge, and as phenomenal a memory, he was in the wrong place. Vinnie didn't know it. He saw his seat as the culmination of his career. It was a validation for him.

The poor guy was really not emotionally equipped for the job. And, when things stopped he took it as hard as anyone. He really wished that he could have carried on as the various incarnation's number one player. But he didn't fit, and that didn't sit well with him. It was a profound loss for him.

I miss him.

I loved him with the Tubes, and I loved him with Todd Rundgren.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

That is kind of my opinion. I dont think anyone could pull off that position he was thrown in.

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Poster: staggerleib Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I really feel more sad than anything else about vinnie. I think that he was a tragic character in the story of the Dead. I also think that he created a lot of the drama in his life.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

i agree with that stagger - i am by no means a vince fan "with the dead" - feel bad for the situation he found himself in and the poor choices he made afterwards. tough act to follow Brent, especially with how much Jerry just loved brent (and Bruce for that matter)

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Aug 28, 2009 4:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I don't think Welnick can be judged until spring 92 when Hornsby leaves. That gives him 1 1/2 years under his belt and he is flying solo. I'll also give him a pass and not comment on the rig and the sounds Cutler and Bralove provided. With that said from 1992 on he has very few standout moments and in my opinion made poor choices in his playing that had nothing to do with the engineers.

To his credit, I think he was the only one who really wanted to be there most nights in 1994 and 1995 and he did lead the charge to get some old dead classics back in rotation but unfortunately for me that's not enough. Like I have asked Vince fans before, please refer me to a Morning dew where I can actually hear him contribute? Not sure one exists

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Aug 29, 2009 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvOrrRnR4-g

Speaking of Wellnik I came across this Music never stopped and was wondering a) if anyone has seen this footage before
b) if so is it comercially avalible

...the bands all packed and gone, were they ever here at all...

Vince was the last person I expected to fill Brents shoes
he did fine I think considering the miles the band had under the hood at that point.
I would have liked to seen Garth Hudson fill the slot but w/ that I would have missed the Harmonies that the Dead bring to their songs

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Aug 29, 2009 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

Welnick may not have been a good fit, but like several others here I sort of find him a doomed figure from the get-go. By 1993, he was probably the only one in the band who still gave a shit about the Grateful Dead as an ongoing musical venture. To the rest of them it was just a giant ATM (and a burden to Jerry who seemed to want out entirely but felt trapped).

However, I also agree with the those who don't like his musical choices. And while I may not have cared for a number of Brent's tunes, "Samba in the Rain" makes "Tons of Steel" sound like "St. Stephen".

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 30, 2009 10:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I wasn't going to join in here ( most anything I could say has been said ), but when Brent died, it seemed they just wanted to "get another Brent", and take care of their tour obligations... till they could get Bruce .
I though they blew a chance to change directions a little . I wished they would have taken some time off, and got someone who would challenge them push them , and not necessarily another keyboard player . Or tour without a keyboard player (sort of the early mid 71 sound ) . All this would require work ; and since the money thing, and all those dependent on that money, was a limiting factor, fat chance .
Vince's playing is ok... But his own songs, and those "Classic Rock" covers... were not in the same league as the Dead material . But most of the lameness of late period Dead, can't be lain at his feet . What a sad story .

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Aug 30, 2009 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I definitely agree that there may have been a missed opportunity to completely re-align the parameters of the Dead and that they should have at least taken some time off to think about it. Instead, it was "lets just fill the keyboard seat ASAP and get back on the road."

Interesting that fall 1990 was so strong- sort of a last gasp from a dying entity.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Aug 30, 2009 2:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I'm listening to Cal Expo 93-05-25 and was thinking about Welnick, I realize you older Heads have a difficult time w/ Vince but I truly am grateful fot the chance to see the G.D.
I was In the Military from the time I graduated H, S. in 82 thill late 1988, all through school I was a big Who fan as well as hundreds of Bands. I'm raised from the midwest and really there wasnt much for miles except this 500 acre lake that is still beside me . The whole time I was away my friends discovered the Dead (re-discovered ) when they started to tour agian in this area (Clev. ,Colum., Cinn )I couldn't wait to get home from Germany to check this Band out.
Life gets complicated and when the time came ripe for me to see the band Brent passed away and all my friends and I wondered if that could be the end of the Band.
it was anounced that the dead had found a replcement and Fall Tour '90 was back on.
I seen shows at Buckeye and Richfield and am forever eternally Grateful for the Band and Welnick for allowing me to get on the bus (metaphoriclly speaking) w/o shows from 90 -95 I wouldn't have had the chance to see Buckeye 93 (still think it's one of thier best from 90-95
I wasnt one of those rabid fans that actualy crashed the gate in that horid summer I was a sad bystander knowing I seen the end of an era pass

Thanx Vince, Thanx Grateful Dead, and Thank You Forum

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 30, 2009 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I feel your pain. You and I are close to the same age and we both know that 1980's music sucked, so that is all we had. The GD did come around alot here in NC. My bro and sis were quite a bit older that me and I grew up on 70'S rock and I that God for that. If it wasn't for them I may have been stuck with Culture Club, InXS, or other 80's trash.

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 30, 2009 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I really appreciate everyone thoughts and posts on this. It seems like we are all in pretty much agreement on the perils of Vince.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Aug 29, 2009 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I wanted Pete Sears to get the job when they were auditioning after Brent died.

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I think Welnick was a decent and creative keyboard player. HE COULD NOT SING TO SAVE HIS LIFE! His harmony blend with the band was awful, a shout rather than a note, and always seemed to end on some high note way out of range. Ugh. I loved his keyboard swirls and think he was rather in the TC camp when it comes to not really fitting in with the boys. His end of life tragedy was a sad final act...

My Ranking:
Keith Godchaux (had the range and talent early on that vaults him to the top)
Brent Mydland (solid organ player, plus an excellent vocalist)
PigPen (show stealer in his prime, good on the B3)
TC (a kaliediscope of sounds, often mixed way down)
Vince Welnick

Bruce Hornsby should be just right above Brent, but his body of work is still too small to be considered beyond a sideman. He may have been the most talented of the bunch. Ned Lagen also falls into the TC/Vince catagory...

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

Ok would you guys say that there are very few stand out moments for the band after 92? I seem to think so and the band itself was on a constant roller coaster ride as far as performance value so he never knew which one was going to show up become accustomed too. My personal ranking is Myland,Keith,Pig, Welnick,TC Keith would probably be #1 but he had to pay the price for bringing Donna with him.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I hate to pile on the guy but to back your point on vocals I submit this and all LTGTR post 92. His lead is 30 seconds in and is just awful. The tune should have been put to rest when Hornsby left.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1993-12-08.sbd.miller.83399.flac16

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Poster: banditos33 Date: Aug 28, 2009 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

That does suck. i think his nuts are caught under the foot peddle!

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Aug 29, 2009 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I think it starts and ends with Jerry. IMO that Brent's death fell heavily on Jerry's shoulders and at that moment and in the foreseeable future, nothing mattered. I firmly believe that if it wasn't for Hornsby, Garcia would have called it quits. Hornsby is the consummate musician, and if not for his inspirational presence, I don't believe Garcia would have had the drive to break in a new keyboard player. (Brent had become more of a musical counterpoint to Garcia's playing than Weir.)

By 93-94 Garcia was saying "For what, the money?" about heading back out on the road. He clearly gave more of himself to JGB and and Grisman than he was to the Dead. Ultimately, the band had to keep the corporation fed, and back on the road they went.

In the end, Jerry was tired and sick, the rest of the band was probably sick and tired of watching Garcia lumber towards another major health issue. Like others have commented, Vince didn't have the nerves for the job, and despite knowing it was the best gig he would ever get, just had to know he was on a sinking ship.

I personally don't think Vince made the band any better or worse, other than pushing some really bad song selections. Nobody's gonna call the 90's a great decade for the Grateful Dead and there's a multitude of reasons why. Vince really isn't deserving of being one of those reasons, just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This post was modified by Earl B. Powell on 2009-08-29 15:14:57

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Aug 28, 2009 9:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

Earl I have always thought that Brent's death broke Jerry's heart. It's hard to say exactly why, but Jerry always had a big smile on his face whenever Brent sang, even if it was oddball stuff like Maybe You Know or I Will Take You Home (which I happen to love)...

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Aug 29, 2009 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

You are correct. When Jerry was not on the smack and looking down at the floor ignoring everyone, he always was turned in Brent's direction on tunes like Blow Away and Never Trust a woman. The most intersting thing I found out was in either the Blair Jackson or Dennis Mcnally book that in 1990 when Brent was out of control and being babysat Garcia made the decision to let him go and called Hornsby to repalace him. According to the book Hornsby felt weird about it since he really liked Brent and never retured the call. Until...

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Poster: angular Date: Aug 29, 2009 3:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

Well said.

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Poster: WHARFRAT Date: Aug 29, 2009 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Opinions on Welnick

I still think Brent, Would have been the only one to pull
an Easy Wind off, After pig!

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Aug 30, 2009 6:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: white dopes on punk !!!!

its not that i dont like what he does.......its what he does SUCKS!

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